Forum:RSC Wiki transfer transcripts

In order to maintain maximum transparency about our move over to another Wiki I will be posting all communications here that occur outside of the wiki. If you have any comments or concerns about what you read do feel free to comment.

shastaYesterday at 8:01 PM Howdy CookYesterday at 8:01 PM hey I got your email. I'm happy to start talking about what you guys want I'm fine with having the transcripts public, but I also need to make it clear that anything we discuss here is tentative shastaYesterday at 8:03 PM I think 2001 was the only person who had anything in the way of requests CookYesterday at 8:03 PM I can tell you what I think will very likely happen, but it shouldn't be taken as a stone-cold promise quite yet shastaYesterday at 8:03 PM certainly so CookYesterday at 8:04 PM I have a meeting with someone from Jagex next week to get an exact idea of what they want from us, both in terms of RSC and the localised (non-English) wiki versions I can tell you what I think we'll do, but that's subject to change depending on technical stability what did 2001 want? shastaYesterday at 8:05 PM I think his main concern is that on the right column of the migrated wikis, it does not display the "Recent activity" section which makes the people have to watch on the mentioned page (Recent Changes) to watch for vandalizing or improper page changes. CookYesterday at 8:06 PM ah, so you're used to just monitoring it from any old mainspace page? shastaYesterday at 8:07 PM it helps a lot when editing, more of a realtime check to see what else people are doing rsc particuarly since people love to replace rsc stuff with rs2/3 data or to help someone create an article or edit an article CookYesterday at 8:09 PM so, here's my initial thought we don't really...have a right sidebar anymore. the reason it existed on wikia was so they could put sidebar ads there shastaYesterday at 8:10 PM as they say in osrs, engine work :stuck_out_tongue: CookYesterday at 8:10 PM my strong preference would be to not reintroduce that in general, because it takes away from the content space pretty considerably it's not that it can't be done, it's that you're losing 25% of the content space for something that a small number of people (obviously the important people, but still) use shastaYesterday at 8:11 PM i have a large monitor so i cant comment on the inconvience [sic] CookYesterday at 8:11 PM my suggestion is that we could make a javascript gadget that you could turn on in your preferences that would mostly mimic the behavior of that module it could even fill that additional space shastaYesterday at 8:12 PM toggles are always good CookYesterday at 8:12 PM my preference would be to have it off for your average reader though shastaYesterday at 8:12 PM off by default is fine CookYesterday at 8:12 PM I don't think that would be that hard to make either, it could even have a lot more functionality if you want e.g. the current recent activity guy only includes mainspace pages maybe you want more than that. or maybe you don't shastaYesterday at 8:14 PM not sure i follow 100%. If a person wants more details then it is not too hard to click the special page CookYesterday at 8:15 PM well, the module that currently exists if someone edits a Template: namespace page, for example it won't show up assuming we're talking about the same thing shastaYesterday at 8:15 PM i understand now CookYesterday at 8:15 PM it wouldn't be the exact same but it would have similar functionality if you decide that's something you guys really want. personally I just always click back to recentchanges [sic] shastaYesterday at 8:16 PM including those changes would be a good idea it is purely a matter of convience [sic], that we have grown accustomed to the other wikis get tons of changes a day, so us checking for activity can become more a chore, if we are a lot less likely to find any changes CookYesterday at 8:17 PM yeah shastaYesterday at 8:21 PM as far as support from Jagex, what do you think they might offer RSC. Since we are killed content they wont link to us.(edited) CookYesterday at 8:24 PM to be honest, I have pretty low expectations for any Jagex support for RSC I'm not really sure what that would even entail, given the closure shastaYesterday at 8:25 PM frankly with how they handled RSC's closure with no so much as a final farewell newspost. If they didn't try and remove the wiki that would be a plus :I but truely the wiki does not need anything from them. Unless they got one of those RSC servers hanging around :open_mouth: CookYesterday at 8:26 PM I'm sure they do, and that's probably the pipe dream in terms of jagex support is that they just give the code out to someone, and you guys would be the likely choice but that's obviously...pretty unlikely for now shastaYesterday at 8:27 PM We just gotta roadtrip to Andrew's I would be surprised if he did not have a server in his attic i know i sure would, if i was the creator lol CookYesterday at 8:27 PM I get the impression he would love to talk about RSC we saw him at runefest shastaYesterday at 8:29 PM so the domain is jagex's but the servers are an outside contractor? or am i confused (as far as the new wikis) CookYesterday at 8:29 PM so, we control the entire infrastructure including the servers and the domains specifically, they're owned by the company "Weird Gloop" that Gaz and I started however, there's a clause in the contract that says that if the partnership ends, then we remit the domains back to Jagex because they legally have a claim to any domain with "runescape" in it shastaYesterday at 8:31 PM i dont [sic] recall if this was addressed. but say they do end it. would the site be able to fork back to another wiki site be it wikia or another CookYesterday at 8:32 PM yeah so there's two pieces to that and the answer to both parts is good if they end the partnership, essentially the only thing that changes (other than the money, which I can cover, and the intangible jagex support) is that we lose the domain but we still have the servers and everything else and we'd still own rs.wiki/osrs.wiki etc we also have a clause in the contract that says jagex can't use the domain "runescape.wiki" for at least 6 months after the termination of the contract shastaYesterday at 8:33 PM those domains i take it are currently redirecting to the new wiki? CookYesterday at 8:33 PM yeah well not osrs.wiki yet shastaYesterday at 8:37 PM makes sense the license is the same for the content right?(edited) CookYesterday at 8:37 PM mostly we're changing the license where possible from CC-BY-SA to CC-BY-NC-SA, which adds a clause where it can't be used for commercial purposes however, this is only enforceable on new articles, since changes to existing pages derive from revisions that are licensed under CC-BY-SA shastaYesterday at 8:38 PM of course sounds very messy tho, for when someone edits only a part of an article that entire article would then have a mix of lisences CookYesterday at 8:39 PM a single article is generally considered to be a complete "work" so a specific article will either be CC-BY-SA or CC-BY-NC-SA depending on whether it derives from a wikia revision shastaYesterday at 8:40 PM sounds a bit suspect, since a person could then just add a period somewhere and call it new? CookYesterday at 8:40 PM I don't quite follow but the truth of the matter is, all of these licenses kinda fucking fail once you start dealing with fluid collaborative works like this shastaYesterday at 8:41 PM true, tho i hear Linux might be in for a fall with how they licensed code CookYesterday at 8:42 PM copyleft licenses are a dangerous world there's this huge issue where GFDL is fundamentally incompatible with Creative Commons and everyone is trying to figure out how to fix it anyway, for most purposes it shouldn't really make a difference whether or not it's NC but know that there is a bit of a bifurcation there shastaYesterday at 8:44 PM yeah, stormy's comment was that he wanted to make sure the license was similar so he should not have any reservations CookYesterday at 8:44 PM okay shastaYesterday at 8:44 PM "Bit late here, but I support moving as long as the copyright policy, independence, and creative freedom remain the same. s. (talk) 18:01, October 13, 2018 (UTC)" assuming Jagex were to greenlight this process. what timeline from go to code, might we be looking at CookYesterday at 8:47 PM so, just to clarify, it's not so much we need Jagex to greenlight it the confusion with them is more about the localised sites than it is rsc but they want us to support all of them shastaYesterday at 8:48 PM I see CookYesterday at 8:48 PM I just want to confirm with them that everything is good to go as far as the timeline goes, I think we should have a conversation with Me and Gaz, Jayden and Kitty (our tech guys), and maybe you/Luis/2001/Stormy because this is a bit of a new space for us both the wikis we've moved already, we're sort of...smack in the middle of those communities whereas with RSC, yes I'm an administrator, but I haven't really done anything useful on there since 2011 besides sysopping you guys and I just want to make sure we take every step we can to avoid any sort of adversarial company-vs-community situation shastaYesterday at 8:51 PM that was my reasoning with holding off on further talks till we as a community had reached agreement CookYesterday at 8:53 PM there aren't many things I'm super worried about, but RSC is going to need to follow the rules we agreed on with Jagex about moderation which sounds scary, but really just about all it means is you can't leave slander and libel up on the wiki just things that cover our ass legally shastaYesterday at 8:54 PM well i dont think a person would upload an audio file filled with slander. But that is understandable tbh i would think that was an already exisiting rule CookYesterday at 8:55 PM I mean, yeah all this stuff is common sense and we should probably have an actual terms of use for the other sites as well there's nothing in there that's, like, Jagex controlling the content or anything but we need to be able to step in if somehow one of the local wikis is doing things that exposes us to breach of contract with Jagex i'll write up a terms of use shastaYesterday at 8:56 PM woo the fun of legal stuff Shasta Sms (talk) 17:14, October 14, 2018 (UTC)